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Eswau Huppeday Lodge 560 S1 First Flap

Eswau Huppeday S1 Flap

Eswau Huppeday S1 Flap

The first flap Eswau Huppeday lodge issued for wear on the scout uniform, known as the "black teepee" issue or the "dark teepee". However not many realize that this issue was by several in lodge opinion was not the actual first issue. I personally talked to a lodge member that was inducted into the lodge at the second ordeal and this flap was not the one that was issued to him. The lodge believes this to be a loom variety of the S2, so realistically the S2a should be classified as the S1. But by being in the blue book and oaimages.com as the S1 and by it being such a rare flap it continues to be classified as the S1. This is probably one of the hardest flaps in our lodge to acquire, but isn't the rarest.

Contributed by Lodge Editor David Barger
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If this is the case, when someone does a patch guide for the Lodge, will they they classify the S2a as the FF?

Greg Grimes - November 20, 2013

Speculation of the First Flap Issue of Eswau Huppeday Lodge

Eswau Huppeday Lodge was chartered in 1964. Unfortunately there are no existing records in regards to the first flap order. The current national collector view of our first flap is that it was one with a dark grey thread tipi and rocks. In fact, the lodge used nearly the same design from 1964 to 1978. “Nearly” used is part of the key to solving the mystery as many lodge members question the correctness of the national collectors and reference materials.
Arapaho II clearly defines the first flap as one with dark grey tipi’s and 6 dark rocks, however, the pictures in the reference are crossed with the flap our lodge calls the gray tipi design. The beige tipi design, according to Arapaho II is designated s2 tan tipi; tan colored tipi and 7 rocks. The second s3 flap of our lodge is distinguished by light grey tipi (Arapaho calls them tan again) and light grey 6 rocks.
So one of the earliest reference books confuses the whole issue, listing s1 as dark gray tipi with 5mm lettering, s2 as a tan tipi with 6mm lettering and s3 as tan tipi but with 5mm lettering. The pictures confuse everyone by showing the described s3 as the s1, the described s2 as their s1, the s3 is completely incorrect pictured with an s4 design.!
Blue Book does a little better in descriptions, matching the dark gray tipi as s1, list variants of s2abc, and s3 as the tan tipi. Most recently variants of the s2 design have been identified as having different lock stitch and yellow colors.
So there is little doubt that the flaps identified by Arapaho and Blue Book were used between 1964 and 1978.
I was fortunate to have an opportunity to talk with a founding brother, Randy Ferebee in 2010, to discuss early lodge history, and first flaps. When asked about the first issue, he stated the general design-similar to all three of the first designated flaps. Without being shown a patch, he was asked about the coloring and was even told that there was discrepancy in what was the actual first issue. His reply was that “we(I) told the patch company to make the tipi’s the same color as the one we used in our amphitheater during the camp pageants. When asked if this tipi was grey or beige, he replied that the tipi was “yellow” in color and that is what we asked the patch to look like.
An interview with former lodge treasurer, Steve Barlowe, who possessed greater than 3 of our dark grey tipi flaps (a big oddity for our lodge traders!), revealed that during 1968 when he was the lodge treasurer, it was noticed that flaps were being sold with a different color tipi. These he stated were “a mistake” but were issued then. 1969 also coincided with the first Eswau Huppeday delegates to a National Conference, possibly making available flaps to a larger audience of traders, although flaps would have been available to be traded at the Dixie fellowships of 1965 and 1966.
There are instances cited of brothers who only attended one of the early ordeals, and that was their last event. These brothers posses the “beige” variant of flaps
Another perplexing fact is that there is a definite difference in the size of lettering on the “beige” tipi as opposed to the dark and light grey tipi. Also different is the number of rocks between those issues. Early patch manufacturing used large stitch patterns to produce a patch, a timely process to make a patch. The notable differences between the “beige” and “light and dark” variants would have necessitated two different punch patterns to produce the different issues. The question begging is why would the lodge produce the dark grey issue, then produce a completely different both in color and design, then return to the first patch with different grey color? It seems far easier to explain that the “odd” patch on design would have been more likely the first issued and the remaining flaps would have come from the same loom design, rather than a separate issue in between them.
Unfortunately, we have unable to locate a picture of a scout from 1964/1965 with a close enough look at a pocket to determine which flap is sewn on the shirt. Fortunately, the difference in letter size and rock count is easy to see from 6 feet away! This being the 50th anniversary of our lodge, we are in great hopes that a dated photograph will surface that solve the mystery!
David Cody
Lodge Adviser
Eswau Huppeday Lodge

David Cody - November 21, 2013

I would like to share information that I have gathered over the past 35 years of active membership in Eswau Huppeday Lodge about our first three flaps. Our lodge first met(not an ordeal) on August 15, 1964 and flaps were ordered that fall, so it is not likely that anyone had flaps at all before 1965. The old issue flap was last issued at the august ordeal in 1977, so we can speak of a range from 1965-1977. The first photograph that I have of scouts with our flap on their uniforms is the Schiele Scout Reservation Staff Photo taken June of 1965. I would suspect that the 1965 Dixie Fellowship would have been the first out of lodge OA event that our flap may have been traded with others. I will use the terms beige teepee, regular old issue and black teepee from here on. The beige teepee flap is a unique punch pattern. The regular old issue flaps and the black teepee flap is the same punch pattern. AC Bowman our first lodge advisor only had beige teepee flaps(10 to be exact and we have a picture of them).All members that I have talked to that took there ordeal in 1965 were issued the beige flap. Sash and dashers from 1965 have been a good source of information and we have membership cards, golden anniversary handbooks and beige flaps together from these brothers. My friend EY Cobb who was inducted in 1965 only had one flap in his lifetime that he wore on his uniform and it was a beige teepee and before his passing gave it to me. Long time scouter and patch enthusiast Earl Propst commented before his death that he was sure that the black teepee was not the first flap and he had always thought that the beige teepee flap was the first. Most early members of our lodge did not even know about the black teepee flap until questioned. I am confident that the beige teepee flap was our first flap. Late 60’s and 70’s ordeal members received the regular old issue flaps. Nationally there are three that have been recognized as variations and even though there are more it is of no value to split hairs. There is smaller regular old issues but I believe that the border was put on tighter than normal and to are probably only of interest to me. I have not interviewed or talked to anyone to date that received a black teepee flap at there ordeal. It has seemed to me that there has always been more black teepee flaps out of lodge than in lodge although that has flowed the other way in the last 5-10 years. Lodge treasurer Steve Barlowe commented that the Black teepee flap was given away and in the lodge store in 1968 and 1969 prior to the National Jambo and NOAC which would have been the first National events where are flaps would have been taken to trade. This would explain the large number of black teepee flaps out of our lodge. I think that lodge leadership did not like the black teepee flap and did not issue at ordeals but sold and gave away to get rid of. Currently I have no proof of when the black teepee flap was ordered but it seems to be a loom run of regular old issue design with black teepees and stones, no other differences. Again I am confident that the beige teepee flap is our first lodge issue. It is possible in my mind that the Black teepee flap could have been made next and not issued and I know that the regular old issue flaps were issued over at least 10 of the 13 years that this design was used. We seem to find new information every year so hopefully we will at some point be able to resolve the placement of the black teepee.
Kevin Gantt
Associate Lodge Advisor
Eswau Huppeday Lodge

Kevin Gantt - November 30, 2013
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